Finding queer joy is more important now than ever. With queer rights getting threatened on a daily basis, that joy can be hard to come by. As we near Pride month, I’ve been reflecting on on the inclusivity and feeling of community that queer spaces offer. Despite being a writer, I’ve never been able to put it into words. The best I can do is a sense of belonging — of having a place where you feel free to fly.
Reclaiming that joy is how we get through uncertain times. Of course, fighting for our rights is vital, but we also need to carve out some space to remember what we’re fighting for. Finding ways to escape the perpetual dread that follows each new headline can often be a futile effort — particularly because so much queer media focuses on trauma, bigotry, and coming-out stories.
Now, of course, those are important subjects to tackle. But they aren’t the only ones that creators should be making. All too often, people outside of the community are the ones making queer films, so we get movie after movie of doom and gloom storylines that fail to capture the joy that makes this community so beautiful.
When queer writers, directors, and actors tell their own stories, I can immediately tell. Not every movie needs to focus on trauma. And that do are often coming-of-age movies. Hollywood is in desperate need for more queer rom-coms that offer precisely what every other rom-com provides: two people who happen to fall in love.
Max Talisman’s Things Like This does precisely that. Zack Mandel (Joey Pollari) and Zack Anthony (Talisman) fall in love the same way every classic rom-com couple does. They’re queer, sure, but the storyline isn’t about their queerness. It’s a refreshing change of pace from the slate of movies we typically get in the genre.
Not only does the film have incredible comedic timing, but it’s wholesome, witty, self-aware, and incredibly charming. Talisman wrote, directed, starred in, and produced the movie — and it’s clear that the movie was lovingly made by a group of friends who care about the story, the characters, and each other. And really, what better way is there to make a movie that centers on queer joy?
I had the pleasure of talking to Talisman about harnessing that queer joy in Things Like This, plus-sized representation, Batman through the ages, and countering a slate of stigmas.
It’s so important for queer stories to be told by queer creators, and I can always tell when that happens. So what tropes or failings have you noticed in the genre, and how did that impact your vision?
Max: Yeah, I feel like a lot of times when it’s [not] written queer people or it’s played by non-queer actors, there is a sense of inauthenticity that’s sort of palpable through the piece. It’s a heteronormative thing of what they expect we want to see on screen or what they expect queer people would want.
What we want is our own experiences reflected. And there [are] a lot of ways in which we’re all human and we’re all similar. And there’s a lot of ways in which the queer experience is unique. And I think when you see something on screen by a queer person, you can clock it. You just know. I mean, it’s hard to point out specifics, but it’s easy when you’re watching it to know.
As someone who’s plus-sized, I really appreciate the movie tackling fatphobia hypocrisy. So what was your process in tackling those conversations, and what helped you decide which of those things to include?
Max: Yeah, I think it’s my experience, so I would feel like it is inauthentic for me not to address it and not to make it part of the reality of this character. And in the response to the film so far, we’re seeing a lot of that — a lot of ‘thank you for this authentic representation. It means a lot to see it reflected on film.’
People feel reflected in a way they haven’t before, but at the same time, we’re getting some comments that are like, ‘This would never happen,’ or ‘people would never fall in love with someone of that size,’ or whatever. And I’m here to say from experience, it’s not true. And I’m here to say that love is something that can and should be available for all people. So yeah,
Definitely. We’re seeing a lot of rollbacks on queer rights at the moment. How has that impacted your approach to this movie? What do you hope audiences take away from it?
Max: We’ve talked a lot about how this film has sort of in today’s political scene become an act of protest, but […] it’s queer joy. So in it living in queer joy, it is in itself protest. And I think what people should take away is the fact that we’re not all so different, and the fact that what makes us human is what makes us beautiful. And those differences between humans should be celebrated — they shouldn’t be attacked. And I also just hope people have a good time. I hope they laugh, and I hope that they go in, enjoy this 90 minutes of fun and love, and then we can come out and start fighting again.
You’re a bit of a quadruple threat in this film. So what was that transition like, toggling between roles? How do you think that approach affected your direction and your work as an actor?
Max: I think it definitely helped to be doing all of it. One job informed the other, and then another one informed another one. And I think together, it really pushed me to [perform] at the top of my abilities for each. I was worried before we started that it would be this sort of thing where, because my attention was in a lot of different things, it could be diverted. But instead, it really became a source of power for me. And I think I was lucky that I was surrounded by such amazing people who really were able to fill in any gaps where I needed. And also, the actors we hired were really just the best. And so starting there as another actor, it just instantly would put you into the scene, and you didn’t have any sort of moment where you needed to connect. And so I think for me, it was pretty easy to go from thing to thing, but I think that’s also a testament to just who was around me on set.
I’m kind of obsessed with your mini vampire arc. I wrote a series of satirical vampire poems for my senior capstone project. So what are your favorite vampire movies [or] books, if you have any?
Max: I mean, yeah. What’s so funny is I rewatched ‘My Little Vampire’ a year ago, and I was like, ‘Oh my God,’ this is actually pretty good. And I remembered it as pretty good. But also, I loved ‘Dracula’ as a kid, just the classic. I would have my mom paint my face with the fangs and have a cape.
Those are probably the two I would start with. And I would say the only one I haven’t been able to get into is the Tom Cruise ‘Interview With the Vampire.’ I’ve never felt connected to that one personally, but all other vampires I welcome.
Did you see the show that [AMC] did?
Max: I heard it’s great. Heard it’s fantastic. Need to watch it.
You mentioned Batman, and it’s also on your social media. Who’s your Batman?
Max: Who’s my Batman? Tough question. I mean, the best Batman movies, I think, will always be the Chris Nolan movies to me. And so I think my Batman is Christian Bale. But that being said, I think Robert Pattinson’s doing a great job. I think Michael Keaton was an amazing Batman, and I also think Val Kilmer was a pretty great Batman. I love ‘Batman Forever.’ It’s sort of the campy Batman that I thought worked. So I love all Batmans, but that’s how I would tier it if I had to.
Your character faces a lot of ‘You don’t look gay’ rhetoric, which is something I dealt with when coming to terms with my bisexuality. What are you hoping to achieve with that, and why do you think that’s an important thing to tackle?
Max: It’s important because we assume people’s sexuality, and in the same way, sometimes they might assume someone is gay who is not. And I think it’s not necessarily offensive to assume something about someone and to put that on them, because if someone assumed I’m gay, I am, and I’m happy to be it.
But at the same time, I think that this notion that certain things make someone gay is what’s incorrect. People are people. And I think for me, I’m attracted to men. That’s what it is. And I don’t know if someone on the street would be able to see it, but that doesn’t necessarily matter.
What advice would you give to people struggling with their identity and other creatives looking to get these stories told?
Max: Yeah, for the other creatives, I would say keep fighting. Just anytime you get knocked over, just get back up, keep swinging. And to that point, never give up because you’re going to get a million no’s. I mean, I got a million no’s. That’s just how it works. This business wants to say no, but you have to sort of give them an inescapable.
And in terms of people coming to terms with who they are, I think there’s a community that’s ready to accept you, ready to love you. And I think that’s what’s beautiful is that it is a community. And I think in this world, we’ve banded together and we’ve created this tapestry of the LGBTTQ+ community. I got the T in there twice because Trump took [transgender identities] away. So I had to get it in twice. But yeah, I think we’ve created a beautiful tapestry, and we’ve all connected because it’s important. So that’s what I would say.
The prom scene, I’m obsessed with it. It’s very nineties coded. We got ‘Linger.’ What was that scene like to film?
Max: It was amazing. We actually filmed it in our production office, and we cleared everything for the day and created the prom, and it was just beautiful, and it felt like the gay prom of my dreams that I never got, and it was really special. So I think I’m hoping that it’s a nostalgic feeling, but also something that feels fresh and new in a very exciting way, and I think we accomplished it. I love what we do there, and I’m so excited because it does feel sort of magical realism.
I’m obsessed with it. And you got the Cranberries? What was that like? And was there any music that you wanted to get that you weren’t able to?
Max: There’s a lot of music that I wish we had in the film, but also we were able to get incredible music in the film, some originals. And I am just so proud of the music that’s in the film because it was a real search. We went through weeks of finding music, and at the end of the day, it all fits so well. I love the ‘Linger’ moment. I love so many of the different moments. But yes, I’m happy with the music we have.
Can you think of any specific [songs]?
Max: No, because I think in the end we did get the ones we were meant to.
This interview was edited for clarity.
Things Like This is now playing in theaters.
Xandra Harbet 
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